Welcome to the Financial call. We are financial advisors on a mission to guide you through the financial planning everyone should have. Whether you're doing it yourself or working with a financial advisor these episodes will help you break down complicated financial topics into practical, actionable steps. Our mission is to guide motivated people to become financially successful. Welcome to the Financial call today we have a special bonus episode for you recently, I was on the 90 days from retirement YouTube channel with Eric Soderbergh, he runs the channel and makes incredible videos packed full of information to help prepare you for retirement. So in this one, we dive into helping you know, what is on the Social Security menu for you. We talk about spousal benefits, survivor benefits, divorced, spousal benefits, how to know your break even age, and will Social Security be around for you and how Social Security as taxed, there's so much in there, you get to basically start to finish all in one episode. If you want to watch the full episode, you can go to the 90 days from retirement YouTube channel and watch the full video there. But we're going to link that episode in the description as well. And check out their other videos on YouTube. They have a ton of resources, and they're constantly releasing new videos. But we're gonna put the audio here in this episode for you. So if you do listen to these through Apple podcasts, or Spotify, that you can still listen to it. Otherwise, here's the full interview with Eric and we hope you enjoy the show. Alright, let's get into this. One thing from the Medicare perspective that I want to draw into this is that I hate absolutes. So there's always the people should always take an advantage plan or they should never take an advantage plan or always do this or always do that. In Medicare and in the world. In general, I think absolutes just aren't real in the sense of they aren't good advice. So from a Social Security's perspective, the top videos, the top things I see all the time are always take it at 62. Or always take it at 70 or never take it at 65. Take us through the absolutes in the social security world that we need to be aware of for sure, for sure. Okay, we both know absolute sell. There's also this mentality that we have, where our brains are drawn to something called heuristics, which are just the idea of like, what is the rule of thumb, the easy way to make a decision, our brains have evolved to understand how to make decisions quickly. In generations past survival may have been dependent upon it. And it's different now. So we're trying to use that framework to make complex multivariable financial decisions. And the framework is not as useful in today's environment, right. But our minds still work that way. We're still like, what is the rule of thumb that I should use to make this decision, and it exists, it absolutely exists in the social security space. And I think it does a disservice to a lot of people, the absolutes are tough, the answer is, there is a strategy and probably two or three strategies per person that they could use. And Social Security is not trying to make money off of you. They're trying to make that decision neutral for them, meaning they don't care whether you take it early or late because they have such a large sample size of people that it's going to work out on average to the average population life expectancy for them. So really, they don't care. But we care because our sample size is one. I mean, we are who we are. And we don't really care what the average death is, or the average anyway, you get the idea, absolute sell, but your financial situation is unique. And so you cannot use an absolute across all these unique individual financial situations, which we're going to cover today, of course, but I think you're right.
It gets so complicated in all of this Medicare, Social Security. I guess what I want to cover here is when should somebody take Social Security? That's the main question, but there's gonna be a lot of stuff before that. And then where are they getting their advice? Right. So whether that is a YouTube video like this, whether that is their neighbor or a co worker, everybody's situation is different. So let's go through when should somebody take Social Security and what goes into that? Yeah. Okay. So I'm going to tell you a quick story that I think will show the complexity of this decision. And then we're going to fill in the gaps, and we'll explain how to make this decision. Okay. So I sat down with this woman, and she had been married multiple times. And she was asking for Social Security help. So we sat down and I asked her a few questions. She had been married to a gentleman for six years before, she had been married to a gentleman for about 12 years. And then she had been married to another person for 11 years. And she is married to that last one. Okay. So this woman has an by the way, one of the previous spouses has passed away. So this woman has the ability to take a survivor benefit
off of a divorced spouse, she has the ability to take a current spousal benefit, and she has the ability to take her own benefit. So the absolute if you say, take it at 62. It's like which one? Like, which one are you talking about? Because there's multiple benefits here she could choose from? So the answer is not necessarily, when do you take it? It's first, which one do you take and what's on the menu? So it'd be like walking into a restaurant and saying, I want a cheeseburger. And you didn't realize that you're at a Thai joint, and all they do is curry and rice, right? You have to think through, like what is on the menu for me personally, and then factor in some of the decisions around? How long do I have to live in order for it to make sense for this decision? And that's the breakeven analysis, we'll get into that as well. So again, I think the big mistake is that people use health as their first triage. And that's not the first triage it's usually the last. So your first process of deciding and segmenting, or at least eliminating choices is to figure out what's on the menu for you? And is it spousal benefits, divorced benefits, disability benefits, your own benefits? And we're gonna go through some of these really quick and help people understand, but that's the bottom line is process is what's on the menu. Second, is, what's on the menu for your spouse if you're married? And then third is, how do I understand the risks of longevity? Meaning, what if I live a long time? Or what if I die early, and then throw a couple into that? And you can actually diversify longevity risk between a couple so you can see there's a lot of strategy here. And I mean, I'm happy to dive in. I don't know exactly how you want to get there. But we will talk about when should I file for Social Security. But we need to show people the menu. Yeah, yeah. And just for everybody watching, at this point, go to the financial call.com, the guided path, season two talks all about Social Security. So this is going to be a deep dive. And there's even more information there. So make sure you go check that out. But let's talk about that menu. What is on that menu, for people to understand, exists? Sure. And yeah, we've run ours as audio only podcast, because we've tried to hide and not be on camera. But Eric's brought us on camera.
Right. So some of the first things to understand about the menu, you have your own benefits. And I'm gonna back up and give people a few terms. Because as you wait into the social security decision, you're going to run into some acronyms. And until you know what those are, you're going to be lost. So let's start there. primary insurance amount P i A, that is your benefit at full retirement age. And it's confusing because they use the word insurance in there. It's a social insurance program that's designed to provide income for the elderly. So that's why insurance is in there. Don't stress about it. All you need to know is when you see p IA or primary insurance amount, that is your benefit at full retirement age. There's another acronym you're gonna see f are a full retirement age. So your pi a is your benefit at fra, you can see how this starts to get a little bit confusing, right? And where can people find their PID on ssa.gov. So Social Security Administration, that's what SSA stands for. And if you go to ssa.gov, no matter how old you are, if you have an earnings record, meaning you've paid Social Security tax, you can set up your login, and you can see what your earnings were per year, you can see what your projected, primary insurance amount is. And you can get a feel for what your Social Security benefit will be perfect. So I think that's wise for everybody to go and set that up just so you have a feel for what you're looking at, especially if you're in the last five to 10 years before retirement, it's good for you to set that up. So you go on Social Security, administration.gov or ssa.gov, you get your PI A, and now you know what they're gonna give you at your full retirement age fra, that's the starting point. And from there, if you wait until after full retirement, they're going to bump it up. And if you take it early, they'll give you less. And that works out to be not exactly but for a quick conversation like this about 8%. And we can throw that chart up to Okay, that'll be helpful. So after full retirement age, it's 8%. Before it's not quite 8% growth. And by the way, that's monthly too. Sometimes people will say, Oh, I gotta wait to my birthday to get that 8% bump, and oh, no, it's every single month, they divide that growth per month, and it gives you a little bit each month. So sometimes it may make sense to file it 64 And four months or something like that based on the math and your strategy. Okay, so once you understand your primary insurance amount, then from there just to give people a rough idea. If you filed early, you're going to get about 70 to 75% of it. And if you wait until 70 You'll get between 124 232% of it. And the reason I'm giving you a range is because the full return
Herman ages changed. So it used to be 65, many, many years ago. And then they bumped it up to 66. And then between 1954 1960 years of birth, I mean, not back then. But like, if you were born between 1954 and 1960, it's going to be 66, and two months or 66, and four months, and then until you get to 1960, birth years, and then you're up to 67. And then the rest of us currently have 67. I mean, you and I, Eric, we're gonna be full retirement age of 80. Right, you're gonna ask, do you think it's gonna go? Oh, yeah, absolutely. We'll talk about that, for sure. I actually think that's one of the main tools that they will use to shore up the program. So we'll talk about the risk of soul security still being around. And I think they've got plenty of levers to pull. But that's one of them. Yeah, so you and I need to prepare for that. Yeah, if you are in your 50s and 60s, I don't think that's that big of an impact for you full retirement age will probably stay fairly similar for you. It has in the past, if history is an example of what the government has chosen to do, they do a lot of grandfathering in with Social Security, when they make new laws, they know their voter population, right? They know that people that are watching the news and are informed, and that actually you're going to do the work to go vote. And so that group of people, which are probably your listeners, they're like, you're fine, we're gonna leave you alone. It's these young people over here that don't pay attention, that we're going to bump their full retirement age up. So anyway, that gives you an idea on Social Security with regard to full retirement ages. And that sounds like a personal benefit at this point. So we're looking at the personal dollar amounts that I could get. Exactly, but I think we're gonna move into that's not the only thing that could potentially influence that. Yeah. So that's right. That's the starting point. And so you have this Piia, and I draw a line in your mind, and then it could be greater or smaller, depending on waiting or taking it early. And then off of that pi, a, all other benefits are calculated to. So let's say that you're married, and your spouse is eligible to take a spousal benefit off of your PI A, and we oftentimes get the question of, especially if couples run their finances separately, they're like, Well, I don't want to take his income, you know, like, I don't want him to not get as much because of me, that's not what's going on here, your husband or wife could get 100% of their benefit. And then you can also get 50% of that benefits. So really, the government's paying out 150% on the primary workers, PA. And that happens all the time. And I think that makes sense. Because think about the contribution that a lot of homemakers, and caregivers and folks that have really like done a great job to rear children and good people in the world but may not have had a Social Security record, like the government's trying to figure out okay, well, they've contributed to society, how do we reward them with a Social Security benefit, we'll base it on the spouses, so a spouse can get 50%. Now, something to think about with regard to spousal benefits, you get again, half at full retirement, but it's not your spouse's full retirement age, it's your full retirement age. So let's just draw some numbers here for a second, John and Jane, John has a benefit, that's $2,000 a month. And Jane has her own record that shows a benefit of $800 a month, sorry, 2800. So Jane has a choice here, she can take all of her own benefit at $800 a month, or half of John's $1,000 a month. And she gets to choose between the two, if she files and if she makes it known that she's married to John, they will give her the larger of the two. So there's not a lot of work there. Anytime I help people file for Social Security, I always like to mention in the notes, I'm married to John, this is his social security number. And I would like to make sure I get the spousal benefit off of John's record, just so that you don't leave anything to chance. I was gonna ask that. So are you specifically indicating that or can the government see that I know you're doing that as a safety? But can they see that and they'll make the assumption that you're taking spousal? Or do you have to indicate that so if you fill out the application correctly, they will know that you're married to John, because you've said in the application who you were married to, and they're going to ask a lot of questions about your spouse. It's funny to talk to people when you're sitting across the table from a couple and helping them fill out Social Security. And you ask them okay, what day did you get married and you know, wife will look at husband really quick to see if he remembers, and he doesn't, you know, this, it happens more often than you think I even had a couple of ones so that they looked at each other really funny. And then they were talking to each other kind of in hushed tones about which date they were going to provide to me and I'm I'm so confused. And turns out, this couple had disclosed to no one that they eloped, no one and this was like 40 years ago, and I'm the first person to find it was the weirdest thing. I felt so honored to be in that tight little circle to have found out that
This couple ran off to Vegas, they were the most conservative like careful, like not that people you would expect to make that type of decision, right. But anyway, so that's what their marriage certificate said that we had to put that on the application. So yeah, if you fill out the application correctly, and you put the spousal information in, the government will know. But once again, we never leave anything to chance when it comes to a government application. And there is a note section at the end of the application where you write in exactly what you're trying to accomplish. And there will be a human that looks at your application, they're going to review the whole thing, they're going to read the note, and they're going to accomplish what you asked for. So it's a pretty lengthy process, if you know what you're doing and get through the application online in 20, to 30 minutes. But if it's first time you've ever seen it, book an hour of your time or more, yeah, the note will save a lot at the end. I don't want to tangent too far. But there are certain people born in certain times where the spouse may want to take their personal benefit for a time and then potentially take a spousal benefit later. So what Yeah, so it's flipped, there was the strategy called restricted spousal applications, I think that's what you're referring to. And we loved it. And they took it away.
That was back in 2016, I think it was April of 16 was the last time you could do restricted spousal application. So let's talk about John and Jane that we just talked about for a second there, his benefits 2000, hers is 800. It used to be and we probably won't spend too much time on this because it's not available anymore. But it used to be that she would file she'd get 800, he would say I want to restrict my benefit to just a spousal. So he would pick up $400 off of her benefit, all the while his 2000 is growing by 8% per year. So he would do that from 66 to 70, get $400 a month for waiting until 70. And then he'd pick up almost $3,000 a month in full retirement benefits plus delayed credits. So that's what they call it. That's another term that as you work through the social security process, you're going to see the words delayed credits, you get what's called delayed credits for waiting beyond social security. That's the 8% Bump beyond the full retirement age. Thank you. Gotcha. Perfect. Yeah, thanks for that. Tim, just if anybody has heard that before, we want to make sure we clarify another one that went away, because this is the absolute, like you're talking to somebody who's a decade older than you, and they're saying, No, you got to do the restricted spousal better, well, they probably didn't say it that way, you got to take a spousal and then do your own or file and then stop it and then take the spousal. So that's the other strategy they took away, it's called file and suspend. So you used to be able to file for your own benefit, and immediately suspend it, which made it really nice, because then your spouse could hop on a spousal, that's one rule with spousal benefits for a spouse to receive any type of spousal benefit off of your record, the primary care worker has to have filed, so to my wife to take your spousal benefit, I need to have filed my case. Yep. Let's talk about that for a second. So let's say you really want your wife to be able to get this spousal benefit, but you would like to wait, because you think that you might live a long time, and you'd like to get as big a benefit as possible. So you file and you immediately suspend it. And the suspension of it allows it to continue to earn the delayed credits. And the fact that you filed allowed your wife to pick up a spousal benefit. So they also caught on to that and shut that down. Do that. And yeah, so those two strategies went away in 2016, doesn't mean that there aren't plenty of strategies that could be used. But those two in particular, if you've heard of them, they're no longer available. And we're now to the point where if you were born on January 1 of 1953, or earlier, then the restricted spousal benefit is available. But the weird thing about Social Security and Medicare is the same. They take the day before your birthday as your birth month. So technically, it's January 154. And then you're born in 53. For social security purposes. Gotcha. So we just covered where one spouse has their PA, and half of that PA is higher than the personal benefit of the other spouse just wrapping this up. The other option is that half of the PA of the primary worker isn't as high as the personal benefit. So the spouse has that decision. Are they indicating that on the Social Security application to are they going to be able to see, okay, personal PA is higher than spousal will be higher? The short answer is you don't have to worry about that they're gonna give you your own benefit. They're gonna give you the larger the two. The slightly longer answer is the reason is because the way Social Security thinks about it, and the way they calculate it is called a spousal add on. So they give you your own benefit. In the case of John and Jane, she is eligible for 1000 total, right? So they give her 800 of her own, and then they throw on a $200 spousal add on. So the reason that that you'd have to worry about it is because there's no spousal add on to be had Greg in that scenario where maybe she has a $1,500 benefit. She's gonna take that and 15 is more than 1000. So there's no spousal add on, got it. Is there anything else from the spousal benefit that we've missed?
We're having covered here, they're all living spouse, there are a couple of rules people should be aware of. And we can give some of these, you can show them if you'd like. But the main rules we talked about one primary worker has to have filed, and the spouse must be at least 62, for a reduced benefit up to full retirement for the full benefit. One key thing that plays into the strategy, spousal benefits do not get delayed credits, that's huge. Because people will say, Oh, I'm gonna wait till 70 to file for my spousal benefit, it's like, you are leaving a lot of money on the table, waiting from full retirement to 70 on a spousal benefit. In fact, that was my parents situation, when they took away the restricted spousal benefit. My parents were born in 54, and 55. And they barely missed out like the end of anyway, they barely missed out by let's call it 10 months. So I had to plan on my mom filing my dad picking up a restricted spousal, and then filing for his own later. So when they took away the restricted spousal, my mom was not going to be able to get as high of a benefit until my dad filed because her own benefits smaller than the spousal off of my dad. So we ended up having my dad file not at 70, but not at full retirement either in between, because that unlocked the door for my mom to be able to file. So anyway, that goes back to like, the idea of he needed to file so that she could get it. But we also didn't want to wait till he was 70 because her benefit as a spouse stopped growing at full retirement. So the math made sense that once she no longer was getting delayed credits on her spousal, it was time for him to file to unlock that door. And then his spousal benefits based on the spouses Piia. Not the spouse is delayed credits. Yes, yes. I don't know if that's the third rule. You're gonna know, that was a really good point. It's not the third rule. So we kind of covered the other one, no delayed credits on spousal benefits. But yes, the answer is, it is based on the P IA. So you take that P IA, John and Jane were using them, it's still as an example. His is $2,000, no matter when Jane files, and when John files, Jane's benefit as a spouse is going to be some percentage of the P IA of John $2,000. Let's say John decided to wait till 70 thinking, I'm going to push my benefit up higher, it will be close to $3,000. And then my wife will get $1,500 as a spousal benefit doesn't work like that. It's always calculated on the P IA. Now we're gonna go into survivor benefits, different calculation, different ballgame, but spousal benefits, always on the PII. Perfect, great question. Great. Any other rules that we need to cover for spousal benefits? We need to talk about divorced spouses. Yes, everyone's still alive. So like spousal and everyone's still alive and divorced, everyone's still happily married, divorced or not. And they're still alive, though. And then we'll move into survivor if they're alive and married. Now, obviously, there are more rules, but I think we've covered what you need to for today. Yeah. Okay, should now they're alive. And they're divorced. Okay. So if they're alive and divorced, the benefits are super similar, a couple of the rules change. And I think some of these make a lot of sense. Like, for example, you know, we talked about unlocking the door for your spouse to file, you can imagine certain spouses just out of spite ex spouses, I should say, being like, well, I know, it's good for me to file, but I'm not filing, if she gets anything, you know, I could see that happening, right. So if your ex spouse is 62 or older, the Social Security Administration just counts that as opening the door for you to file as a spouse, or ex spouse. So as long as your ex is 62 or older, then you have the ability to receive basically a divorced spousal benefit off of their record. Again, it'll be on their PII. Even though they're only 62. It'll be on the benefit they would get at their full retirement age. And then your age will determine what percentage of the PII you get, is there a gap between when that divorce happened? And when you can do this? Or is it all just you got divorced yesterday, and you're good to go? Your marriage has to be 10 years long. Okay, so that's probably the first thing. But let's talk about a couple different gaps. So marriage is at least 10 years long, and you were divorced as of 30 years ago, doesn't matter, you can still get a benefit off of that ex spouse from 30 years ago, marriage that started 40 years ago, if you remarry at any time, and you try to get a spousal benefit on a living ex spouse. You can't you just can't they're just basically saying like, Hey, you're married again, like you picked your current spouse. So and I don't know if it's that important to like, put that on your dating profile. What is your, what's your P IA? And are you willing to? I don't know. Anyway, so you get the idea. But as soon as you remarry, the benefits as a spouse off of an ex, if they are alive, go away. And we're going to talk about if they die, which is really weird conversations, tell people because you're telling people like Hey, I know you don't want any communication with your ex. But if you could just keep tabs on whether they're alive, that'd be great. Because if they
diet changes your benefits drastically. But don't take any action in that regard either. But anyway, okay, if the divorce was more than two years ago, the ex doesn't have to have filed. So that was the one that Gotcha. You asked about a question about, like, Can you do it right away, let's say that you are both 63. And you'd really like to get on Social Security, the government's trying to prevent people from playing marriage games for Social Security, right? So you can't just divorce and then immediately hop on Social Security. If the X is not on if the ex is on Social Security, you're good to go. But if the ex hasn't filed, then you have to wait for those two years. You can't just divorce and file immediately. Now, if you guys got divorced at age 60, and now you're 62 or 63, then you're good to go. Because it's been more than two years, and your ex is over 62. Gotcha. And then the last, I think you touched on this on the normal spousal benefits. But I want to clarify here because my parents are divorced, and this came up. So if you're taking divorced, benefits, divorce spousal benefits from somebody, they don't have to see it, they don't have to approve it, it's not taken away from theirs. You don't even have to have a conversation with that. Right? Right. You can, if you don't know their social security number anymore happens all the time, you can still file and get some help from the Social Security ministration to track some of their information down at least to know what your benefit would be. So you are absolutely right. In fact, we met a guy who had been married three different times for more than a decade, each time, he's getting his own benefit, and three other women are getting an ex spousal benefit off of his record. And usually people at that point are like, Well, no wonder the Social Security Trust is struggling, right? For people are getting a benefit off of this record. It's not struggling, that's what they say. But yeah, he won't know she won't know like, it doesn't matter. It doesn't take away their benefit, it doesn't reduce their benefit. They don't get notified, you basically just are good to go and can file what's rightfully yours. Perfect. Okay, let's talk about a spouse has passed away now. And there's two versions, one it was your existing spouse has passed away, and then we'll go into your ex spouse has passed away. Yeah. So if your existing spouse has passed away, then you will be able to get a survivor benefit right away. But those survivor benefits, this is where strategy becomes really important. You can start a survivor benefit at age 60, or later, I'm gonna just throw this out there probably won't cover it today. But if you have young kids as well, I think a lot of people forget that there's child and caregiver Social Security benefits for people who pass away with young children. So the caretakers like, for example, husband and wife, tragic, either health or accident, and one of them passes away in their 40s, there's a very good chance that the surviving spouse should be receiving some social security benefits, because they have young kids under 16, or under 18. And there are different rules that play into their, whether they're disabled or not, or whether they're just minors, and again, that's why probably not a conversation for today, I just want to give people the red flags, the red flag is if you know somebody who has young children, and the parents of those children has passed away and you're the other, it's time for you to do a little bit of digging and Social Security and potentially get some money, you know, monthly. So that's part of the survivor benefits. And all the survivor benefits between caretaker and child and spouse, they all get added up in there is a family maximum, don't see that hit that often. The standard thing we run into and think about is, if one person passes away, the smaller of the two benefits is going to disappear, the larger the two benefits will stick around, and the surviving spouse will live off of the larger of the two benefits. That's the key thing, if you're going to walk away with anything from survivor social security planning, is understand that the larger of the two sticks around. Now, when you think about strategy, let's say you have two people that both have a $2,000 social security benefit. And they both choose to take it at full retirement age. I think that's a mistake, or they both choose to take it early. Also mistake, they both Wait, that's a mistake. The idea is if you have a similar social security benefit between husband and wife, you should be diversifying a little bit. And you should be doing something different. Maybe one of you files early and the other at full retirement, or one of you files at full retirement and the other waits till 70. Because the math works out that instead of 2000 each, maybe you're getting 3000 on one and maybe around 1000 1500 Let's call 1500 on the other. So if one person passes away, the survivor is left with 3000 Instead of being left with two. Yeah, so that's important to understand how those survivor benefits and that's a difference from what we've been talking about because it's all been based on pa but survivor sounds like it's based off of
What they attained. So delayed credits do come into this equate Exactly. So another story, father turned 62. And you hear a lot of those absolutes, like get it while the getting is good file right at 62. Right? He filed right at 62 got sick got two months worth of Social Security benefits and passed away. And most people at that moment would say like, well, that's two months more than he would have gotten otherwise, right? Well, the problem is that his wife lived into her 90s. So she spent about 30 years on a reduced benefit, because the survivor benefit is going to factor in delayed credits, whereas the spousal benefits always use the Piia survivor benefits, like you said, use whatever they obtain. So you want to try to really think carefully about if you think even just one person and a couple is going to live a long time, then one of those benefits should be maximized for survivor benefits, or at least considered, yeah, you can run the math. And if it doesn't make sense for either of you to wait, totally fine with that. But you should at least do something slightly different. And I'm not saying wait. In fact, I find that more often than not, as a wealth advisor. I'm one of the few that when I'm talking with clients that surprise clients by saying you should be filing as early as possible. I think that sometimes financial advisors make a mistake here, because we have calculators and tools. And so we run the tools, when we run the tool to ensure people won't run out of money, you should use a really long life expectancy. But when you run a tool for social security analysis, you should use an average to slightly shorter than average. Because your risk is that you actually die too soon with Social Security, right? With not running out of money, your risk is that you live a really long time. Yeah, so it's a different risk. And in order to manage those risks, it makes sense to use a slightly different agent and life expectancy. So anyway, I think a lot of financial advisors throw 90 to 95 in the tool. And if you throw anything above 87, it's going to recommend you wait till 70 Every single time. Yeah, so that's part of why some of those absolutes come around is because financial advisors throw that in the tool. And then they tell everybody, everybody should wait till 70. The reality is, if you're a couple, this is a team sport, you should be having one person, maybe file a little bit early, that's a little defensive from like, let's get as much as we can, because that benefit will go away. If someone dies, and the other spouse tries to grow, there's a little bit in order to get as big of a survivor benefit, which is what we're talking about. Can I clarify on the one thing just to make sure I understand correctly of when he filed it? 62 We lived a couple of months and passed away. Because he filed at 62. She's getting the amount that he was obtaining through that plus whatever Colas are happening. But had he not filed and passed away, then she would have gotten his full Piia. Is that what I'm understanding? Okay. And then it's based on also when she files Yeah, so she could have waited until 66 was her full retirement age. And then she could have gotten his full Piia at that time. But as soon as he files he locks in that survivor benefit, gotcha. Now, with survivor benefits, there's this really neat opportunity. And I want to say the opportunity to help someone in a surviving spouse situation. Obviously, it's tragic, difficult, this might be a little bit of a silver lining in all of the difficult situation that you're in. As a survivor, you can file it 60. And we know a lot of couples and helped a lot of couples where one person passes away, we file for a survivor benefit at 60. And then they get benefits as a survivor for a decade. And then at 70, they switch over to their own benefit. And because they waited on their own benefit, they get 132% of their own benefit. So think of them as like completely separate benefits the survivor and spousal and own like spousal and owner in the same park, who does that make sense? They're within the same park. But survivor is like entirely different. So you can do one and then the other, if their own benefit is going to be the largest. Typically what we'll have people do, I say typically, because we always get surprised somebody is going to come into the comments era can say like, Well, no, this is how it works. And, and they're probably right. Okay, but we're just saying, often, here's what happens if their own benefits going to be larger. They file for the survivor at 60. Get it for a decade, and then they filed for their own. They weren't going to get the Survivor Benefit anyway, right because their own benefits bigger, they'd rather get more money. So you might as well get as much of the survivor benefit as possible as early as possible. But let's flip it. Let's say that the person who passed away was the primary breadwinner in the family and the survivor benefits is going to be quite large. The survivor benefit stops growing at full retirement age. It's kind of like spousal benefits that way where you would never wait beyond full retirement age to

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